So I'm playing in the £250 No Limit Holdem game at the Vic when the following occurs. One of those non-pots happens, one where the players check it down and basically there's a bowl of rice out there, or, in this case, the grand sum of £40.
With a final board of K Q J 3 3 a young American kid (good player btw) declares, "Nothing, I have 9 high". His opponent, a middle aged South African gentleman says, "Oh, I have 10 high". They turn their cards over and the dealer pushes the pot to the South African.
Of course all of you lot out there reading this have already spotted that both players are actually playing the board, so therefore it should have been a split pot. Why the American kid didn't notice I don't know, but if you've been playing for a while you get tired. The South African gentleman is one of those types of players who would have to be told. As for the rest of us at the table I guess we weren't paying much attention (any internet players reading have got to love that don't they? So much for live players being such keen observers...)
In fairness to the dealer, who should have noticed immediately, he was actually requesting to be taken off the table as he had already been dealing for two hours without a break in this particular game.
Anyway, as the next hand is being dealt somebody at the table now realises what happened and mentions that the pot should have been split. Everybody else at the table including the dealer realises too and he now informs the South African that he owes the American kid £20. In fact, the only player who is utterly oblivious to what has happened is this South African guy. He says that the hand is all over and that's that. Fair enough I suppose; it was a dealer error and he doesn't have to give the kid any money if he doesn't want to.
In fact, the American kid was kind of taken aback so I told him to get a ruling, because it also seemed like the South African wasn't taking the situation seriously at all. Unfortunately for the Kid the dealer called the wrong floor person over (wrong in the sense that he called another dealer over as opposed to an actual floor person who is properly authorised to give rulings) who then gave a ruling in favour of the South African (probably the correct ruling as it happens).
Anyway, the point is, to me, that it doesn't matter what the ruling would be, but basically everybody else at that table (Russian Alex, Fred, Gary Mills, Rick Gladding, a young Greek kid whose name I can't remember, and of course, myself) would have given the American Kid the £20 without another thought. I mean, maybe I'm making a mountain out of a molehill, but that South African behaved like a total dick, didn't he? (Just to make it clear - there wasn't a huge argument, the South African or the kid didn't make a huge issue out of it, there were no raised voices and all blood pressure remained stable etc).
I dunno, I was dumbfounded that somebody could be such a nit over twenty quid.
On a slightly different note, does anybody out there know why the blinds in the £250 Pot Limit game are £5-£5 with an optional straddle of £10 whereas the blinds in the £250 No Limit are £5-£10 with an optional straddle of £25? How come both games don't have the same structure? I don't get it. As you can tell, the no limit game plays a lot bigger than the pot limit game.
Sunday, March 23, 2008
Sunday, February 24, 2008
Progress, sort of....
Wow! The Vic has installed a shuffling machine (I only saw one and heard it cost about £8,000, so it's very likely they only have one). The bad news is that it will only be used in the raked game. No surprise there really.
I reckon it'll take about 10 days for that machine to pay for itself...
Edit: They have two shuffle machines and DY tells me he actually played in a non-raked game with one of the machines in use.
I reckon it'll take about 10 days for that machine to pay for itself...
Edit: They have two shuffle machines and DY tells me he actually played in a non-raked game with one of the machines in use.
Sunday, February 10, 2008
Declan
I have played poker for many years with Declan from the old £50 Seven card and £50 Round of Each days up to £250 Dealer's Choice and all the pot limit and no limit Holdem games these days. He was the first pro I remember being aware of - his tight aggressive style and table presence was certainly intimidating back when I first started going to the Vic.
What has always impressed me about Declan is his versatility and ability to change gears. Many players would probably just say he's tight and while he is pretty granite I've also seen him play pretty open. I remember a £250 DC game where he raised or re-raised pre-flop almost every hand (especially if Hyder had limped in or raised). I know a lot of the locals would find that hard to believe, but it's true.
Declan also has no problems grinding at smaller limits. While many players would feel embarrassed at having to drop down after playing big Declan feels no shame in having to play "smaller" if he has to. I can remember him playing the old £1,000 game (at one time the biggest game in Europe alternating between a round of PLO and London Lowball) - after winning a load of money for himself and his backer Declan was back to the coalface in the £100 and £50 games. It's this ability to grind which sets him apart from a lot of players.
One of the greatest strengths of Declan's game is the way he makes the stars feel good about playing. I've seen him fold for about two or three hours straight whilst all the time making jokes and wisecracks. All the stars seem to love his company and somehow they always pay him off in the big pots too.
Last night I played in a blinding £100 No Limit game with Declan which featured a Norwegian gentleman who routinely made it between £50 and £75 to go before the flop. Remember, the blinds in this game are £1/£3. Post flop the Norwegian would then continue to just bluff off his chips with hands like queen high etc.
I have to specify that this particular player was not some young internet hotshot typical of Scandinavia, but a drunk businessman who was just enjoying himself. I managed to win a pot with 9T clubs when by some miracle he forgot to raise before the flop and I was able get in cheaply and flop a flush.
Anyway, Declan pretty much folded every hand and somehow this Norwegian was completely oblivious to it and enjoying Declan's many witticisms during the course of play. After yet another hand where the Norwegian bet on the river and got called down by bottom pair (miles ahead of course) Declan looked at this fella's cards and said , "Hold on, you've got a straight - straight in the dustbin".
Monday, January 21, 2008
LOL Donkament Players
The following anecdote might end up being one of those you-had-to-be-there stories, but I shall try my best.
So all round good guy and solid player Paul "Muzza" Murrell is playing in the £100 game at the Vic and looking a bit short stacked. Like I said Paul is a solid player and has recently shown some good results in tournaments, so one would like his short-stack play in general.
Anyway, some new guy comes to the table and raises after a couple of limpers (Muzza being one of said limpers from early position) and gets a couple of callers. The flop comes down something like K T 7 with a couple of hearts. All check to the raiser who duly bets a pony. Back to Muzza who now check-raises all-in for £45. Other players fold and the New guy calls the raise of £20 and we're off.
Muzza being the good guy that he is says, "I've got a King". New guy says nothing. A black trey peels off on the turn and now Muzza quickly exclaims, "I've got two pair now".
For some reason I found this quite funny and burst out laughing. "Desperate times Hugo call for desperate measures" said Paul. Still, calling a raise with K3? I guess playing a hand like that out of position is a good definition of desperation (btw his two pair stood up to take the pot).
Paul took it in good humour and agreed that he'd been playing too many tournaments. To be fair it was getting late and everyone was looking to get out of it (myself included - I'm not mentioning any of the dubious calls I made in that same game, don't you worry 'bout that!)
So all round good guy and solid player Paul "Muzza" Murrell is playing in the £100 game at the Vic and looking a bit short stacked. Like I said Paul is a solid player and has recently shown some good results in tournaments, so one would like his short-stack play in general.
Anyway, some new guy comes to the table and raises after a couple of limpers (Muzza being one of said limpers from early position) and gets a couple of callers. The flop comes down something like K T 7 with a couple of hearts. All check to the raiser who duly bets a pony. Back to Muzza who now check-raises all-in for £45. Other players fold and the New guy calls the raise of £20 and we're off.
Muzza being the good guy that he is says, "I've got a King". New guy says nothing. A black trey peels off on the turn and now Muzza quickly exclaims, "I've got two pair now".
For some reason I found this quite funny and burst out laughing. "Desperate times Hugo call for desperate measures" said Paul. Still, calling a raise with K3? I guess playing a hand like that out of position is a good definition of desperation (btw his two pair stood up to take the pot).
Paul took it in good humour and agreed that he'd been playing too many tournaments. To be fair it was getting late and everyone was looking to get out of it (myself included - I'm not mentioning any of the dubious calls I made in that same game, don't you worry 'bout that!)
Monday, December 24, 2007
Mind Boggling
The Vic now has an electronic list as opposed to the old board where you went up and scrawled your initials under whatever game it was you were interested in playing.
Sounds like a good thing and I guess it is. But (you knew there would be a but, after all I am a Vic regular and we are all known for our endless moaning) it's a load of rubbish.
In, say, the Wynn poker room in Las Vegas, you go up to the floorman and ask him to put you on their computerised list. He says, "No problem buddy, there you go", and that's it. Well naturally the Vic has to make a mountain out of a molehill and getting your name on the e-list now requires some sort of receipt with a bar code on it which you now swipe into an infrared-type-thingy-like-wot-they-have-in-sooopermarkets.
I mean, seriously, WTF? Did the higher-ups in the Grosvenor organisation think, "We better make it a bit of a hassle to go on the list, after all we don't want just anyone to have access to it, maybe terrorists will get their hands on it and then we'll have a serious situation on our hands."
Another consequence of this e-list is that you cannot now see any of the names on it if you are sitting in a game. Or how about this one? There's no facility for a Transfer list so various members of staff just remember it in their heads. Yes, I can't see that leading to any arguments...
To be fair, I was told that eventually the system will be tied into our membership cards, but I still don't see the point of that either. What if you've forgotten your card? What about if you're a guest and therefore haven't got a membership card?
I'm sure the new e-list will improve, and I know their hearts were in the right place, but still the mind boggles.
Talking of the mind boggling I saw an extraordinary hand in the no limit game. Pre-flop there were a bunch of limpers and then a raise. The action is on Michael Arnold who now goes all-in for about £400. Fold, fold and John with the cravat calls all-in for about £200.
Now I know all you Vic regulars are thinking, "Michael's got aces, maybe kings if he's feeling frisky, and this John geezer has made another ridiculous donation to the Arnold coffers".
But no! Mr. Arnold lost the pot to John's pocket 10s. "Oh right", you're thinking, "Michael went a bit potty with AK suited". Guess again, Mr. Arnold's hand was, in fact, the powerhouse that is.... 23 off-suit. Yes! I swear on my baby daughter's life.
Hugo the dealer took credit for Michael's super-flairy all-in move, by making an earlier comment that Michael wasn't up to the standard of play found in the £250 games these days.
JQ came over to have a look during the hubbub that is an all-in coup and his reaction of mouthing, "What the fuck?!?" when he saw Michael Arnold's hand said it all.
Sounds like a good thing and I guess it is. But (you knew there would be a but, after all I am a Vic regular and we are all known for our endless moaning) it's a load of rubbish.
In, say, the Wynn poker room in Las Vegas, you go up to the floorman and ask him to put you on their computerised list. He says, "No problem buddy, there you go", and that's it. Well naturally the Vic has to make a mountain out of a molehill and getting your name on the e-list now requires some sort of receipt with a bar code on it which you now swipe into an infrared-type-thingy-like-wot-they-have-in-sooopermarkets.
I mean, seriously, WTF? Did the higher-ups in the Grosvenor organisation think, "We better make it a bit of a hassle to go on the list, after all we don't want just anyone to have access to it, maybe terrorists will get their hands on it and then we'll have a serious situation on our hands."
Another consequence of this e-list is that you cannot now see any of the names on it if you are sitting in a game. Or how about this one? There's no facility for a Transfer list so various members of staff just remember it in their heads. Yes, I can't see that leading to any arguments...
To be fair, I was told that eventually the system will be tied into our membership cards, but I still don't see the point of that either. What if you've forgotten your card? What about if you're a guest and therefore haven't got a membership card?
I'm sure the new e-list will improve, and I know their hearts were in the right place, but still the mind boggles.
Talking of the mind boggling I saw an extraordinary hand in the no limit game. Pre-flop there were a bunch of limpers and then a raise. The action is on Michael Arnold who now goes all-in for about £400. Fold, fold and John with the cravat calls all-in for about £200.
Now I know all you Vic regulars are thinking, "Michael's got aces, maybe kings if he's feeling frisky, and this John geezer has made another ridiculous donation to the Arnold coffers".
But no! Mr. Arnold lost the pot to John's pocket 10s. "Oh right", you're thinking, "Michael went a bit potty with AK suited". Guess again, Mr. Arnold's hand was, in fact, the powerhouse that is.... 23 off-suit. Yes! I swear on my baby daughter's life.
Hugo the dealer took credit for Michael's super-flairy all-in move, by making an earlier comment that Michael wasn't up to the standard of play found in the £250 games these days.
JQ came over to have a look during the hubbub that is an all-in coup and his reaction of mouthing, "What the fuck?!?" when he saw Michael Arnold's hand said it all.
Sunday, November 25, 2007
Apparently I'm a Slow Roller...
I've noticed there's a new regular at the Vic who seems to primarily play the 100 NLH game (this has a minimum sit down of £100 and a max of £600). He seems a bit eccentric and talks a lot and wears what looks like a cravat, I think I heard someone call him John, so that's what I'll call him.
Anyway I'm playing in this game and I make £11 to go UTG (blinds are 1/3 btw) with AA. Fold, fold and now John moves all-in.....for £600. Sweet, as Fred Carle would say. Everyone folds back to me and I obviously call with the boots.
As soon as I said call and moved my chips over the line (I had John covered btw) he flips up QQ. Now I guess this John is used to tournaments on TV or something, but I only ever turn my cards up in all-in situations like these in tournaments, not in cash games, and many other regular cash game players would do the same.
The flop comes down K J T, but I manage to fade his six outs and as soon as the river has been burned and turned I show my hand and then get told, "Nice slow roll".
Jeez, I know it sucks to lose a pot, and this John doesn't seem like a bad guy, so I guess he said it in the heat of the moment, but who out there thinks I slow rolled him? I would never do such a thing, even to a player I loathed and thought of as a complete and utter drak (there's a few candidates out there, don't you worry about that!).
I've been playing long enough at places like the Vic to know that I don't ever want to show my hand unless it's at the showdown. If John had outdrawn me I would've thrown my hand in the muck facedown and told him I had deuces or something; isn't this what poker is all about? Playing your cards close to your chest and all that?
When I first went down the Vic I used to show far too many hands, especially nut hands - I guess I wanted to be liked and crap like that. I'm still paying for that mistake now many years later.
On another note I'd just like to congratulate my mate Neil Channing for winning the £1,000 NLH freezeout - not only for the win, but his third big final in a row (Bristol Gala Grand Final and Blackpool GUKPT just recently). Surely his name is all over the GUKPT Grand Final trophy?
Anyway I'm playing in this game and I make £11 to go UTG (blinds are 1/3 btw) with AA. Fold, fold and now John moves all-in.....for £600. Sweet, as Fred Carle would say. Everyone folds back to me and I obviously call with the boots.
As soon as I said call and moved my chips over the line (I had John covered btw) he flips up QQ. Now I guess this John is used to tournaments on TV or something, but I only ever turn my cards up in all-in situations like these in tournaments, not in cash games, and many other regular cash game players would do the same.
The flop comes down K J T, but I manage to fade his six outs and as soon as the river has been burned and turned I show my hand and then get told, "Nice slow roll".
Jeez, I know it sucks to lose a pot, and this John doesn't seem like a bad guy, so I guess he said it in the heat of the moment, but who out there thinks I slow rolled him? I would never do such a thing, even to a player I loathed and thought of as a complete and utter drak (there's a few candidates out there, don't you worry about that!).
I've been playing long enough at places like the Vic to know that I don't ever want to show my hand unless it's at the showdown. If John had outdrawn me I would've thrown my hand in the muck facedown and told him I had deuces or something; isn't this what poker is all about? Playing your cards close to your chest and all that?
When I first went down the Vic I used to show far too many hands, especially nut hands - I guess I wanted to be liked and crap like that. I'm still paying for that mistake now many years later.
On another note I'd just like to congratulate my mate Neil Channing for winning the £1,000 NLH freezeout - not only for the win, but his third big final in a row (Bristol Gala Grand Final and Blackpool GUKPT just recently). Surely his name is all over the GUKPT Grand Final trophy?
Wednesday, November 7, 2007
Mistakes Part 3
100 Pot Limit Holdem, the Vic. I have £1800 in front of me and I'm in the small blind (technically the small blind as the blinds are £3/£3 in this game). There's a raise and a few callers so I decide to call with 5s 6s.
The flop is 5 6 T with two diamonds. Ok, bottom two, shall I get cute and check to the raiser? Nah, this particular pre-flop raiser is not guaranteed to bet and a free card for all these schnorrers would be disastrous, so I lead out for £60. There's a fold and now Ashley Alterman, who's in front of the raiser, makes it £160. Everyone folds back to me. Shit, what have I run into?
Now I'm quite friendly with Ashley and respect his game. I'm pretty sure this respect is a two-way street (might not be, he could consider me a complete egg which is fair enough too). Anyway, the point is I know Ashley is not fucking around and I guess 99% of the time his raise here means a real hand. That's not to say he isn't capable of raising with the square root of fuck all here by the way. Plus he has about another £700 behind.
Oh boy, for him to have limped early position and then call a raise which then merits a raise on this flop, he must have either a set or straight and flush draw (like say, 7d 8d, which I'm a small dog to). Fuck, my hand doesn't look too good so I fold and decide to wait for a better spot.
Ashley being the mate he is flashes me the boots as he mucks his hand. Shit! I was miles ahead. Wow, he played those aces pretty sneakily, not like him at all. Why didn't he re-raise before the flop when the action had got back to him?
Why? Because he never limped in in the first place. He was the original pre-flop raiser, not the guy I thought it was. D'oh! Well, I deserve to lose for not paying attention. What a costly error. And I got what I was looking for which was action for my big hand, it's just that I thought the action was supposed to come from somewhere else...
The Vic famously used to have a "moody" rule whereby you weren't allowed to talk about your hand. Thankfully they got rid of that rule, but it has to be said that the floodgates are now truly wide open.
I refer to this as later on I had the dubious pleasure of playing in the No Limit game with Will who has taken talking about one's hand to new levels. I have to say I actually found it sort of amusing after a while, especially as he kept making 10-13 BB size raises before the flop only to always find sandbaggers waiting in the wings.
Quite often it was Ken Wong who has not been playing down the Vic too long yet has already accrued a load of good results in all the various daily tournaments. Will would make his standard huge pre-flop raise with plenty of chat about how great his hand was and then the action would get back to Ken who would then casually slide about £200 worth of chips all in. This must have happened about ten times and Ken gradually built his chip stack up to over a carpet just like he would have done in a tournament.
Every time Will would go into a huge dwell up and song and dance about he actually had a real hand and how could Ken do this to him, but every time he would fold.
There's another new player in the Vic who is quite vocal, but unlike Will this guy is pretty obnoxious. Neil Channing told me a good story about this loudmouth as I left.
It's the £250 PL game and Loudmouth is playing snug. He limp-reraises from early position and is heads up with the star in the game. The flop comes down something nice safe for an early limp-reraiser like say 5 3 3.
All of a sudden the waitress appears with Loudmouth's dinner. Now instead of taking a tenner off of his stack to pay for his lobster thermadore or whatever it is they all eat there these days the Loudmouth asks Neil if he can borrow a tenner! Hmmm, is that a tell or what?
As Neil said, it's a real nit's dilemma. Do you just swallow and pay up for your dinner there and then or are you determined to extract full value for your aces? Of course he could have just told the waitress he was in the middle of a pot and that he'd deal with her afterwards, but I guess his hand was so good that he got caught up in the moment.
The flop is 5 6 T with two diamonds. Ok, bottom two, shall I get cute and check to the raiser? Nah, this particular pre-flop raiser is not guaranteed to bet and a free card for all these schnorrers would be disastrous, so I lead out for £60. There's a fold and now Ashley Alterman, who's in front of the raiser, makes it £160. Everyone folds back to me. Shit, what have I run into?
Now I'm quite friendly with Ashley and respect his game. I'm pretty sure this respect is a two-way street (might not be, he could consider me a complete egg which is fair enough too). Anyway, the point is I know Ashley is not fucking around and I guess 99% of the time his raise here means a real hand. That's not to say he isn't capable of raising with the square root of fuck all here by the way. Plus he has about another £700 behind.
Oh boy, for him to have limped early position and then call a raise which then merits a raise on this flop, he must have either a set or straight and flush draw (like say, 7d 8d, which I'm a small dog to). Fuck, my hand doesn't look too good so I fold and decide to wait for a better spot.
Ashley being the mate he is flashes me the boots as he mucks his hand. Shit! I was miles ahead. Wow, he played those aces pretty sneakily, not like him at all. Why didn't he re-raise before the flop when the action had got back to him?
Why? Because he never limped in in the first place. He was the original pre-flop raiser, not the guy I thought it was. D'oh! Well, I deserve to lose for not paying attention. What a costly error. And I got what I was looking for which was action for my big hand, it's just that I thought the action was supposed to come from somewhere else...
The Vic famously used to have a "moody" rule whereby you weren't allowed to talk about your hand. Thankfully they got rid of that rule, but it has to be said that the floodgates are now truly wide open.
I refer to this as later on I had the dubious pleasure of playing in the No Limit game with Will who has taken talking about one's hand to new levels. I have to say I actually found it sort of amusing after a while, especially as he kept making 10-13 BB size raises before the flop only to always find sandbaggers waiting in the wings.
Quite often it was Ken Wong who has not been playing down the Vic too long yet has already accrued a load of good results in all the various daily tournaments. Will would make his standard huge pre-flop raise with plenty of chat about how great his hand was and then the action would get back to Ken who would then casually slide about £200 worth of chips all in. This must have happened about ten times and Ken gradually built his chip stack up to over a carpet just like he would have done in a tournament.
Every time Will would go into a huge dwell up and song and dance about he actually had a real hand and how could Ken do this to him, but every time he would fold.
There's another new player in the Vic who is quite vocal, but unlike Will this guy is pretty obnoxious. Neil Channing told me a good story about this loudmouth as I left.
It's the £250 PL game and Loudmouth is playing snug. He limp-reraises from early position and is heads up with the star in the game. The flop comes down something nice safe for an early limp-reraiser like say 5 3 3.
All of a sudden the waitress appears with Loudmouth's dinner. Now instead of taking a tenner off of his stack to pay for his lobster thermadore or whatever it is they all eat there these days the Loudmouth asks Neil if he can borrow a tenner! Hmmm, is that a tell or what?
As Neil said, it's a real nit's dilemma. Do you just swallow and pay up for your dinner there and then or are you determined to extract full value for your aces? Of course he could have just told the waitress he was in the middle of a pot and that he'd deal with her afterwards, but I guess his hand was so good that he got caught up in the moment.
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